Dark Moon Ramble Why I Quit th APS

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I keep telling myself go with th dark Moon, stay in th shadows, bite my tongue, bc you know what comes after Dark Moon?

There's things I do, that I don't put on blast. Nose down, workin away at things, let the results be the speaker. I tie this in to shadow work. It can act as an amplifier for my work. Extra potent energy to launch or anchor a thing.

An then theres things that happen, that I tend to not share bc it's just really fukn disappointing. I put on the rose coloured glasses and just try to make th best with what it is. This can be a trauma response.

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If these disappointing things were repeated actions, and not the persons best work, then I tend to just give it no air, y'kno. Like it's undignified or something, like 'airing dirty laundry' or what ever th saying is.

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It feels like talking about it benefits no one, and biting my tongue benefits them while I sit here uncomfortable. But this time it feels like maybe theres others who've had these same experiences, maybe me rambling shit will benifit someone. I would feel more confident and validated if i knew others had experienced this. 

(And I'm not talking about maliciously harmful shit rn. If those actions were harmful, then yar ill get shouty, if I'm not taking a gentle or labour intensive route educating them). 

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I forever wear those rose coloured glasses, especially when it comes to Death by Plants. I invest in things and they don't always turn out as I hoped. If it's my own fuk up, hell yea I'll share that shit. I'm not afraid to say I fucked it.  It's a learning curve,... or it's a winner. Theres few mistakes that can't be flipped on their head. We grow or we repeat. It seems pretty bloody simple. 

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So getting to the point, bloody hard pill to swallow, and I've really struggled with talking about this bc like it feels taboo or something, it's no big deal, but it's a big deal to me. I feel like I'm going to get socially out cast from community I'm so desperately trying to be apart of. Maybe thats why its so hard to accept, maybe its just not for me?, but tbh I've never felt more at home in community than in some facets of th Permaculture community. 

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The language these people use and the way they use it, creates a safe space, an inclusive, trauma informed space. I exhale and breath freely around these ppl. They aren't perfect, but when there is confusion in communication it doesn't lead to micro aggressions, frustration, blame casting, and me feeling th need to just stop talking, stop expressing my point, stop mid sentence,..or feeling the need to raise my voice when I'm being spoken over once again. 

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I am choosing to step away from the Advanced Permaculture Skills course, that I was attending at Northey Street City Farm.

And I feel need to share it bc each step of the way I felt diminished, invalidated,  and maybe others have had these same experiences. 

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You may have noticed I stopped sharing my APS wkly wrap ups. It's bc I took off th Rose Coloured Glasses. I didn't want to continue sharing all the things with so much spin it makes me sick. It feels fake and against my integrity. 

I didn't want to publicly share my disappointment either, fearing what the negative responses to my experience would be. So i had been doing both, I had still been writing them, I just havnt balled out and shared them.

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Each wk, every step, id take a thousand pix, and I'd ask every step if i can share this, can i share that. Constantly asking for consent bc that shit is important! i really wanted to blog th whole process, warts and all. I just thought the warts would be more along th lines of "oh no, i fuked up and killed a plant", or had a anxiety attack on th train,.... not th facilitator did a yukky. 

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There were some weeks where i was specifically told to only share a thing from a certain perspective, to use certain wording, when that wording was not used at th time.

Eg we where at a small, very square, 'community garden' at St Lucia uni. It didn't feel like a community garden. It felt strict. Not welcoming to me personally. 

When asked if I could share th pix, th facilitator said yes but just call it a community garden in St Lucia, don't mention th uni. I feel this was partly bc maybe it's only for th uni, not a public community? , but more that he was very strongly pushing his bias against Gorilla Gardening and Growing Forwards Gorilla Community Gardens, one of which had just failed at St Lucia. Pushing to prove that St Lucia didn't need another community gardens bc that one is so abundant, (it really wasn't, at th time we were there, you would have to be extremely creative to get a single meal for one from it). 

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I signed up to this Advanced Permaculture Skills course primarily for th "Full Permaculture Teacher Training". 

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A few wks into th course we were told this is not Permaculture Teacher Training as in doing a course that teaches you how to teach PDCs, and guides you through the course creation/outline. A course that at th end you get a nice lil piece of paper that says you have completed that specific training, you can now go on to teach PDCs. If you google Permaculture Teaching Course, what comes up, is what most people would refer to as "full Permaculture Teacher training". (edit, yes i know we dont need a cert to teach pdcs, or related courses, but thats not the point).

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It was explained to us that many people teaching PDCs these days, shouldn't be, because they have only done one PDC, and then completed their Teacher Training, and that teaching from a text book is not good enough, they need to have years of experience, done multiple PDCs, and multiple Teacher training courses. 

*gatekeeping. (edit, while having lived experience is ideal, its not a prerequisite to teaching a pdc). 

I wonder how Rosemary Morrow, Brenna Quinlan, or Hannah Moloney, feel about that when their creating new teachers. How they feel about th capabilities of their students, when those student go on to teach PDCs. 

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We were told we don't need more ppl teaching PDCs, we need more ppl out there practicing Permaculture. 

We were told the teacher training in th APS will be holistic, and I think what he was really saying it will cater to us as individuals. Which is great, amazing even, given there is only THREE people in th class!!, and one has already been teaching Permaculture related topics for many many yrs. This was exciting. He said he will teach us how to teach any content. Sounds brilliant. 

BUUUT it's not what I signed up to. I'm extremely disappointed and I spoke about this. I feel I was persuaded, manipulated, unheard, and not validated. Any mention of th 'Full Permaculture Teacher Training' being false advertising is denied and they then dictate their narrative. 

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I signed up to do this course on the information that was in th flyer. I read it trustingly, knowing th facilitator had been on teams for Permaculture Teacher Training with Rosemary Morrow at NSCF. I compared the price of the course to other teacher training, and assumed the content would be the same, plus all th extras of food forestry, etc, that were mentioned in th advertisement. I assumed we would get more details leading up to the course, emails, and then hand outs on day one. 

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Leading up to the course, when there was no email from th facilitator, I messaged them asking if we would be getting any pre course info? The answer - "Nope". That was it. One word. I thought OK, it will come on day one.  

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It did not.

On day one we signed a basic induction thing and were told by the facilitator he would not be there the next day bc he had a thing on for 'O week' at the uni, he couldn't get out of. First day, first thought, the actual fuk! Excuse me. Umm.. Where is th course info?  couldn't you have let us know of your absence leading up to day one? *zero respect for students time. Surely you knew you had this other commitment? Why double book yourself? We paid for that day! *Dodgy. *zero transparency. 

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I haven't done many courses, but the ones I have done have all had some form of out line spanning the entire time of the course, with lots of info given on th first day. 

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The APS had no such thing. On the first day I asked about a timeline, I received non answers. I had to ask repeatedly to get any information about the dates of school holiday breaks, and right now no one can tell me the dates for Xmas holidays.

I also had to ask repeatedly for a finish date. In th end I was begrudgingly told the course started on the 14/2/23 so it will finish on th 13/2/24, its 12 month from the start date. Have you ever known a course to start and finish like that?

*Red flag city.

Within the first few weeks i felt so many moments like these, where thing just didn't add up, and there was no transparency.  

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The whole course felt like he was making it up as it goes along, and my persistent need for information like basic dates, or any form of forward planning frustrated him.

It feels so triggering. As if they won't put any details down in pen so they aren't held accountable, or so they can do what's in their best interests as they go, and the call it "Holistic"! (edit, see 'Year on' update at bottom).

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Four wks into the course the facilitator was absent due to booking a consult out at Winton. That's 14hrs drive away. They let us know two wks before hand, great, (sarcasm, not great, actual dog shit actions as they would have had this booke in advance, and should have given that information on day one). They hadn't arranged someone to cover the classes up until the last minute. They were away for one wk, that's the Tuesday and Wednesday,......and then one day, the following Tuesday. 

The second Tuesday, the day before their return, there was a massive communication failure. We attended, but no facilitator. Whether or not we had been told they wouldn't be there or not, the response to this miscommunication was not apologetic. There was no one set to take the class, or even check in on us. The actions immediately following this came across as passive aggressive, and condescending. The facilitators responding actions were purchasing a note pad, and a diary for each of the three student, so that students "can take better notes", and "keep track of dates" ! That's some bullshit right there. *student blaming. (edit, honestly this was such a weird experience. He should have sent out a reminder, some form of weekly communication, and had someone check in with us if no one was willing to take the class for him).

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At the start of the course we were encouraged to journal through the course, so naturally I purchased a nice new diary specifically for the course ( omg! a valid reason to buy new stationary *starts frothing at mouth*), and I observed another student had as well. We all already had our own note pads, and our own preferred ways of recording dates, because y'know, we're grown ass adults on an adult course. We came to classes prepared with what we as individuals required to support our learning, as independent adults. 

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That day all three participants were present. We had to flag a farm education manager to find out what was going on. That day all three participants could not recall being given any information about the facilitator not attending. (No one knew anything. It was written on a board in the office that he wouldn't be their the first week but nothing about this day. In the end the education manager rang him to find out what was going on).

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We together expressed concerns about th course, and th lack of outline, lack of organisation, lack of content

- Eg,  weeding gardens to kill time, during the hottest time of day, in the hottest time of year, while th facilitator went in to the cool office to "catch up on emails", and then we were let to go home early like it was a reward.

Again this really was some bullshit. Pay to do a course, and he says OK, you can go kill time for 40mins, then go home early. I'm paying for this time, I'm not getting paid! This happened multiple times. It was like paying to volunteer, because we were doing exactly the same thing the volunteers were told to do, and we were all standing around with nothing to do. 

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Also on that day when expressing our concerns to the farm manager, at that time, another person was present, and their communication was so important.

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They asked if I needed to be heard. I was angry. And within a few words I was calm, and re-centred. It shone as a reminder of safe space. Of the Permaculture Community I know.

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If it wasn't for that beacon, I would have thrown in the towel that day. Wk 5. Ready to bail. There was already enough flags. I was unhappy with how th course was going, the content, the constant micro conflicts, and I had spoken about this with th other participants each step of the way.

Eg "after lunch we'll all go over to the market gardens to start clearing the gardens of weeds, ready for planting planning". We go to lunch, we return, wait at our workstation. 15-20 minutes later the facilitator comes down from office "why havnt you gone over to the market gardens?". Because you said "WE'LL" go over after lunch???" This implies YOU will WITH us, the three students. It's such a small thing that makes such a huge difference. He meant, I'll sit in the cool office why you students go weed the gardens. This felt like when you have one of those managers that never gets in and helps, just sits back and points, not one of us, separate.

This type of miscommunication was common, and caused micro-conflicts and frustration, as it was never met with acknowledgement or apologies, but instead student blame, (you didn't listen, you heard wrong - what do you call that use of language?). And that's the difference. None of us are perfect, but how we respond to situations like this is what makes the difference. Being apologetic, acknowledging your actions, literally naming it, and then setting the forward moving path of action. Basics of social permaculture were being neglected.

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(edit, i want to add another example thats important to me. During a sesh on Teaching, talking about the first things we would do when introducing ourselves to a group, we went around saying a few things, like how important acknowledgement to country is.

I mentioned asking people to say their pronouns when introducing them selves, both as facilitators and to encourage our participants to, as this avoids any misgendering. Which he had failed to do at the start of this course, so i did on meeting the other two participants, and glad i did as the group was gender diverse.

His input was a roadblock of, 'if you do that out west you will be laughed out of town', with more words and a tangent. Surely said as a cautionary tale just came across as a discouraging shut down, and yall, i just cant with that shit.

firstly, i would never be in a space anywhere that is the case. I Grew up in the bush, i know westy bigots, and city bigots, they all sing the same song, and i dont want none of that. The spaces i work in will be inclusive by default because that is a boundary and non negatable.

This speaks to the 'i know best' attitude, that comes with a roadblocks, not 'yes, and's. You say something that is from personal experience, he says 'no but' , or 'yes,..BUT'. This very well could have just been my personal experience with this person, and honestly i hope so, but it really feels like a culture.

Even if you are teaching to a group of what may appear to be elderly people, it takes five seconds to say, "a pronoun is what we as individuals choose to be referred to or as, so when we introduce ourselves with our name, lets state out pronoun. Then lead by example saying your name and pronouns. You could add that it is to indicate our gender identity, but that may lead to discussion on the validity of the exercise. If discussion does begin, redirect and ask participants to respect the persons who turn it is talking. Just move on. It seems pretty simple to me, and another reason why social permaculture and non violent communication is so important. Whether or not the bigots are ready, this is the way things are done now).

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Throughout the first few days there were times where th facilitator spoke over th top of me. And not in that excitement joy add to convo, but in that, I think I know what your saying so I'm just going to talk over you, or in that, I think my experience is more important than holding space for someone to finish talking.

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It is triggering. Its arrogant. It's akin to toxic masculinity. But it's micro. Micro conflicts. Micro confrontational. Is this micro? is this this just how we are trained to frame th 'teacher' 'student' relationship? To me personally it's not fucking micro at all. It's basic respect and a major red flag. ***And when we speak up in these situations about these types of issues, to certain types of people, the speaking up is seen as the moment of conflict, as opposed to the initial act. And then we are labelled a trouble maker, hard work, a hard to get along with person, a drama person, or they go on to say things about our mental health to reframe the situation and deflect attention. ***Have a good think about if you have ever heard that type of person go on to mention someone's mental health or discredit those who've spoke up about these 'minor' issues. 

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On day one, and two, I asked him not to talk over me. On another I asked him again. And again. And again.

I shared that this is making me uncomfortable and it's not OK.

One response was, and the reductionist energy of, "Yeah that's OK". No it's not ok. I'm telling you this is a problem. We have a communication problem. You have a communication problem. 

I feel as though this translated to them as, Alexis has a problem, Alexis is a problem. And I feel as though that is how they've framed all of these issues when talking with others. It's not our problem, it's Alexis who is struggling. I feel I am not the only person who has had issues with this person. 

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Before starting this course, I attended an online course with this facilitator. The information was amazing. Chokers with info! Whoooweeee! So so much info. I had to re watch each sesh multiple times to really soak it in. Probably should not be advertised as for any level, it's was a lot, likely overwhelming. 

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During this online course I saw th facilitator talk over others. It can a lil tricky in online meetings to get a word in, but it registered immediately with me.

The way he treated one participant really flew the red flag. The participant was sharing expertise from their job, that was relative to the conversion, the facilitator cut them off, boasting about some shit they had done. Ego. Yuk. This happened a few times in that course, to that one person. 

I saw this, I know what this communication is, and I still chose to commit to th APS. I didn't think it would be a problem in person. I spoke with friends and family about this exact thing before signing up to th APS. Some friends said they had had horrible experiences with this facilitator. But for some reason I didn't think it would be a problem in this setting.

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This was extremely naïve of me, I just really wanted to start moving forward in life, y'know. This course appeared to be the perfect vehicle for that. It's been the only teacher training course that was accessible for me. I'm low income, NSCF accepted a long payment plan of my design, due to family commitments I can't do residential courses, so even though the travel was 4hrs by train each day & walking, the two days a week was a great fit.

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Fast forward 10wks into the course, I arrived one morning feeling less than spectacular, my emotional resilience was very low, due to family turbulence with ND kids. I spoke with th facilitator about how I was feeling. As the convo cycled through aspects of the course, (without sharing the entire conversation), I bit my tongue when he spoken over me. I stopped talking mid sentence again, and again. But then I ended up raising my voice, yelling to finish my sentence, as the facilitator spoke over me again. Not ok. Not a safe space. 

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I spoke with management the next day. I wanted to be heard. I wanted a line in the sand to mark that this has happened, and it's not ok. A point to refer back to, when it happens again. And I knew it would happen again from observing the patterns of behaviour. When I spoke with the available management about this, they were extremely validating, sharing that they understood exactly what I was experiencing, and I felt heard. I said I wasn't sure if I could continue the course and asked what a refund would look like.

The education manage was absent for the next two wks, so I would have to wait unless I wanted to talk directly to th Facilitator about it.

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I definitely did not want to talk to the facilitator.

I do not feel th facilitator has the capacity to have that conversation in a safe trauma informed way, let alone in a considerate open way, and actually hear what I am saying without being defensive, and rail roading the conversation. 

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Aaaaaand then,... two days later I fuked my back, lifting a draw out of the bottom of our freezer. I had a extreme nerve pain shoot through my back, and down my legs, as I lifted a small lightweight thing from about knee height. I have bulging L4/5 disc in my lower back. It's a pretty common issue. Treatment is rest, phiso, or get shots to kill the nerve pain to keep moving. But if I keep moving, keep on keeping on, its going to keep on being an issue and not going to heal. 

So this was the defining thing. 

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Across late 2021, and at least the first half of 2022, lived on extremely light duties with severe nerve pain every time I moved the wrong way. I was getting physio, and in the last 6 months of 2022, it had healed to a point that I clearly I though I'd be able to do this course. And I had had no real issues up until now. There were still days I'd get mild pain, but not disabling pain. 

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I had let the facilitator know my condition prior to starting the course, and each step of th way I reminded them. I made sure I wasn't doing anything strenuous. But even just leaning across a garden bed weeding would hurt some days, so I would dial it back as I felt the warning signs.

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I think I got to a place where I forgot how bad it was, when it was bad. I didn't realise this is me now. This is forever a thing until my ass gets so old, that the discs dry out to the point they're longer soft n squishy, so they can no longer bulge. 

Think of discs like a squishy stress balls between your spine. They can bulge out, like a squishy stress ball would when squeezed between your fingies, only as it bulges out, the bulge presses on and/or compresses a nerve causing disabling pain. Untreated, can lead to herniated discs, which can lead to other issues that I really don't even want think about. 

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So two weeks of bed rest, had to find new doctor, get scans, wait for next appointment to get results. Two weeks to over think, umming and ahhing over the validity of walking away from the safe space issues. Like I needed that one thing to be the 'reason' to leave, because I wasn't validating my own poor experiences with this facilitator, and the courses content and structure. 

Questioning whether or not I am just self sabotaging. All the thoughts of if I could just "suck it up".

When talking with another student about the issues as a whole, they asked, "without the communication issues would I be happy to stay?" , and honestly, it'd be a huge start, but it wouldn't make up for the lack of content, planning, and organisation, and there were other things aside from what I've mentioned here. I have touched of them throughout the blog posts that I havnt aired yet. It would come down to trusting the facilitator is able to support my learning in safe space, trust the content is what I want. Without clear communication there is no way to bring up any other issues. 

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There were times I needed, and asked for more instruction, more guidance. Eg with writing a 'talk', and it wasn't provided until he saw I was basically in tears, after asking repeatedly for specific information. It should never come to that, and even then, I ended up doing random googling to try and find what I need, (unsuccessfully).

I signed up to be taught how to do talks, to teach, how to plan day course, workshops,.. and I was not being support for writing a 15min talk. I was not supported in th first step to all those thing. Being told to 'just' write a intro/main content/summary, is not teaching me how to do those things. I was told "I can't write it for you", " can't do it for you". This made me feel like utter shit. I felt stupid, insecure, unconfident, and unassured, triggering all those horrid schooling experiences of not being supported. This is not teaching. (edit, in this specific instance, information was given out on learning outcomes in reference to the main content. My issue was firstly with writing the intro, and conclusion, and then with actually writing th main content was less of an issue, but still a issue of how to structure it. I needed more guidance, more input. Not every one has the same schooling experience). 

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When i was able to talk with the education manager, still undecided as to what I should do, and still waiting for medical results appointment. I was sounding out about what a refund might look like, they said they would have to talk to the other participants to see how they feel, see if the other participants were having any problems. I understand this is based off financial reasons, the need to prove my claims. (edit, In hindsight this wasn't a great feeling. if someone says their having issues like these, and they read off pages of notes of specific examples, from such a short period of time, and other staff know exactly what this person is referring to, then it's a known problem). 

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I said about the fact that it was advertised as Full Permaculture Teaching, but its not that, they asked me to explain what I meant. If you google Permaculture Teaching course, what comes up?!!!!! Thats what i meant. This was odd, they clearly did not want to admit/agree that it was advertised falsely. 

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So due to my medical condition I can no longer continue th course, and with a doc cert, that gave me an exit...but due to the continuing communication issues, the course structure & content, lack of safe space, I no longer want to continue this course. I had two weeks to really think about this, and while the call was ultimately made by medical, I should have set boundaries and made that call the day he didn't show up, and I should have spoken up, made formal complaints each step of the way. 

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A few times across the course, the facilitator mentioned a previous situation, like actually repeated that same words, a past participant of a different course at NSCF who "was so horrible, we ended up giving her a full refund just to make her go away". He said "she hadn't read th advert properly and complained the whole time". Is this how ill be spoken of? This was mentioned a few times!

*Red Flag!

 ***update, I have received a refund for the time unattended. The course was closed. I don't know all the details. I was told one story, the facilitator had to leave for family reasons, while others were told he's accepted another job which would have ended the course anyway. All that time overthinking, feeling I'm doing something wrong, to then hear that *very loud eye roll*.

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Through out the course and exit communications, I expressed all of the above plus more and not once did th facilitator acknowledge their communication had caused unnecessary confusion, inconvenience, or was damaging.

Not once did he use appropriate language to resolve these conflicts that should be taught in Permaculture teacher training.

Not once did he take responsibility, or apologise. 

He instead doubled down on what his intentions for th course were. 

*Pattern Recognition*

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If your interested in real Permaculture Teacher Training here is a list of resources. 

Resource YT - Permaculture Teacher Training with Rowe Morrow, Brenna Quinlan, and Greta Carroll. 

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLutqUX3mNhFQsgXTeFfkZ64U-2VZq9beF&si=UEAhbx02uWDDvcH8 

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Resource DL - Teaching Permaculture Matters by Rosemary Morrow 

https://www.bluemountainspermacultureinstitute.com.au/resources/permaculture-teaching-matters/

Update, so a lil while after releasing this blog, i noticed i no longer had access to certain Permaculture groups on FB. During the course it had been brought to my attention that the facilitator had become admin/mod to a tonne of fb permaculture groups and pages. He had Blocked me from certain groups, and in other groups made it so i can not comment. This is using a position of power to exclude me. With the other behavioral patterns displayed, this is the sort of thing i expected from that person. 

And i started receiving PMs from people saying that had similar experiences. Mostly 'minor' things that just make you go, that was odd and yuk, and were repeated. There was some stuff shared with me that was very concerning and is actual harassment and bullying in a professional scope. I wish i could say more.   

Year on update. 

I threw this up as a post an fb, added below or direct link HERE. It was Dark moon and i was feeling pretty shit about situation still. I really feel i did the best thing bailing when i did, but i grieve the loss of what the course should have been, ways i would have grown. I do still want to do a Permaculture teaching training, host workshops, and co teach PDCs. 

The FB post 

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